Thursday, July 02, 2015

A brief open letter to Jack Hibbs, pastor of Calvary Chapel church in Chino Hills, CA.


Dear Jack,

You don't know me, and I don't know you.  I had never heard of you before last night when, while driving to Trader Joe's and flipping through the radio stations, I landed upon a Christian station broadcasting one of your sermons.  I have been a devout Christian and faithful church-participant for over 30 years and am also nearing completion of my Master's degree in Theology--so I appreciate a good, well-thought-out and well-delivered sermon.

Unfortunately, the sermon I heard given by you--which was in response to the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling about same-sex marriage--was none of these things and, in fact, stands as one of the most spiteful, misinformed and strident screeds I have ever listened to.  "Surely," I thought, "I am hearing this out of context," so when I got home I looked up your church's website and found the sermon there and watched it.  It was that second listening, in its entirety, which prompted me to write this brief message.

We may disagree--as many devout Christians do--on how we interpret the Biblical texts that pertain to homosexuality, but that is not my concern here.  As one who affirms the full inclusion of LGBTQ persons into society and church, I disagree with many of my fellow Christians, and we do so in a spirit of mutual respect and fellowship.  Conservative Evangelical Christians such as Matthew Vines, Justin Lee, Kathy Baldock, David Gushee and James Brownson (to name a few) have provided plenty of detailed and scholarly exegesis on the Biblical texts which offers a viewpoint different from your own.  So I'm not going to rehash those theological arguments here.

What I'm more concerned about is the spirit in which you address these matters.  It is certainly not a Christ-like spirit.  It is proud and haughty.  It is vindictive and mean.  It is Pharisaical.  It is ideological and fear-mongering.  It smacks of Fascism in the guise of the Gospel.  It is very, very ugly. 

And it is rife with lies and distortions.  For example, you claim that now that gay people can legally wed, "It is going to be like it was in the days of Lot: violent homosexuals knocking on doors threatening to sodomize people who disagree with them."  Really?

I know that, as a Calvary Chapel pastor, you place great emphasis on a particular eschatological framework.  Part of your eschatology includes a belief that in the End Times there will be a great apostasy; a great "falling away."  I would suggest that this great falling away is indeed happening, only it is a falling away from grace and from love.  And your behavior epitomizes this apostasy.  You come in fear and anger and accusation, not in the character of the Lord.  

From what I've gathered, you don't have much in the way of a formal theological education.  I find this is often the case with strident fundamentalists.  The ignorance would be amusing if it weren't so potentially harmful.

I realize that criticism such as this will only feed your persecution complex.  You seem to invite it and glory in it, believing that it is an indicator that you are following Jesus.  I would suggest that in this too you are mistaken.  Critical confrontation directed at you for your harsh rhetoric is not an indicator that you are being a disciple of Jesus, but rather that you are being an asshole.

Sincerely,

-Danny Coleman

Addendum (added 3/23/18):  To my astonishment, this has been the most widely read post I have ever had on my blog.  I have not listened to any messages by Jack Hibbs since I wrote this post in July of 2015 but, judging from the comments left by his supporters, I would guess that he has not toned down his graceless, exclusionary, fear-mongering, assholic rhetoric.  In 2015 Hibbs claimed that if gay people were allowed to legally wed "It is going to be like it was in the days of Lot: violent homosexuals knocking on doors threatening to sodomize people who disagree with them."  Same-sex marriage has now been legal across the U.S. for two and a half years and, of course, Hibbs', paranoid pronouncement has not come to pass.  What has happened over the last two and half years is that there are a lot more happily married couples, and the massive shift among Christians from rejecting to affirming people who are LGBTQ has continued.  - DC

111 Comments:

Blogger Unknown said...

Thank you!

7:26 AM  
Blogger Steveo said...

You are wrong Danny. The bible is very clear on homosexuality as it is on all sin. Much of the church is not standing on Biblical teaching anymore and instead is standing on man's teaching. Marriage is a covenant between a man and a woman as it so a covenant with Jesus and his church. Two homosexuals marrying is not a Christian covenant and it is a sin.

5:08 PM  
Blogger Daniel P. (Danny) Coleman said...

Hello Steve,

Thank you for taking the time to comment. I used to believe as you do, because it was what I had been taught by people such as Jack Hibbs. What changed my mind and heart was the Holy Spirit and careful study of scripture. The thing is, these teachings from people like Hibbs about gay people are not just wrong, they are very harmful. They hurt people whom Jesus loves. This anti-gay rhetoric destroy lives. It is utterly un-Christ-like.

Rather than rehashing here the case for gracious and respectful inclusion of gay and transgender people into the church, I would suggest (if you are in any way inclined) you read the books I linked to in the post above.

Blessings to you.

-Danny

8:56 AM  
Anonymous Tristan said...

Nope, sorry Danny, Steveo got it right. Both the old and new testaments make it clear homosexuality is a sin. And this is coming from someone who has struggled with same-sex attraction since puberty. I know what God says about the issue, especially in Romans chapter 1. It is wrong, and quite frankly, arrogant, to think you can overrule God's word. We live in such a politically-correct society where pointing out sin is labeled as "hateful" and "intolerant". Granted, not all Christians point out sin with the purest intents, yet many do, and are still labeled "haters". We tell homosexuals they are in sin and in trouble with God because, well, like all sinners, THEY ARE! Warning against sin is one of the most loving things you can do as a child of God. Just like if you have a 3-year old child, you're not going to allow him to play ball in the streets. It's not because you're being "hateful" and "intolerant". It's because the consequences of doing so is dangerous and potentially lethal. With sin however, it's not potentially, it DOES lead to death, specifically spiritual death and the lake of fire eventually after final judgment.

It is because Jesus loves us, that He tells us, REPENT. That was the very first recorded word that came out of His mouth when He first began His ministry. There's a good reason for that. Without repentance, you will perish (Luke ch 13). Telling people sin is sin is not hateful, it is loving. What's hateful is allowing gay people to think what they're doing is ok in the eyes of God, to remain unrepentant, and that there will not be consequences for that. You, Danny, are being the hater, just like Jonah, who did not want to preach repentance to the Ninevites.

Granted, Pastor Jack can be sarcastic at times and he raises his voice when he's fired up and passionate about what he's speaking of. Yet, I know this man, and he's most certainly not the things you accuse him of being. You assume too much, and much of your judgment can be brought back to you as well. You would do well to preach at yourself and heed your own words.

1:18 AM  
Blogger Daniel P. (Danny) Coleman said...

Hi Tristan,

Yeah, I've heard all that before. It's pretty boilerplate stuff. I actually used to spout some of it myself until the Holy Spirit convicted me that I was sounding like a sanctimonious Pharisee rather than a disciple of Jesus. The thing is, nobody buys those justifications for treating LGBTQ people badly anymore, except for the increasingly marginalized fundamentalist Christians who unthinkingly repeat them.

A few years ago, I happened to be spending a couple of weeks at a seminary in the Midwest and discovered that the Gay Christian Network was holding their annual convention nearby. By this time I had already invested a considerable amount of time and effort into studying the handful of Biblical texts used to condemn LGBTQ people, and had concluded that folks like Jack Hibbs are horribly mistaken in their exegesis. I decided--as a straight, married man--to attend the GCN convention and see what it was all about. Once there, I stood in the midst of hundreds of gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender and queer Christians as they worshiped Jesus with all of their hearts. The Holy Spirit was manifestly present. It was powerful and profound and holy. I felt a bit like Peter at the house of Cornelius (see Acts 10).

So, yeah, I've done the Biblical work and then actually put myself humbly into the midst of those I had previously (and wrongly) condemned. I wish men like Jack Hibbs would do likewise. It is spiteful and dishonest rhetoric like his (example: "It is going to be like it was in the days of Lot: violent homosexuals knocking on doors threatening to sodomize people who disagree with them.") that causes great damage to these people whom God loves.

As I wrote to the previous commenter, if you have any inking to learn more, I would suggest you read the books I linked to in the post above.

9:26 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Please just remember that God created Adam and Eve...not Adam and Steve.

You ARE entitled to your "opinion," Danny, but your "opinion" is NOT what matters...it only matters what God's Word says! And your argument, Danny, is NOT with Pastor Hibbs, but with God, Himself; but unfortunately, by the time you realize that, you'll be standing face to face with your Creator. Take it up with Him at that time.

I DO agree that we are ALL accountable for our attitudes with which we address scripture, but I've heard Pastor Hibbs myself on this matter, and I believe only a person who wants to continue in his sin or in support of the sin of homosexuality, would find what he says objectionable.

By the way, we are never to CONDEMN the homosexual (we are to love the homosexual)...but we are to condemn the lifestyle.

10:29 AM  
Blogger Daniel P. (Danny) Coleman said...

Hello T. Anders. By bringing up the tired old cliche about "Adam and Steve" I assume you are trying to suggest that since the first human couple is depicted as a male and a female then other pairings are against God's will. I wonder then how you explain the thousands of humans born each year who are intersex; that is, they are both male and female or neither completely male or female (sometimes anatomically, sometimes chromosomally). Are those people and their relationships invalid too? Should they be prevented from marriage since they are neither strictly male or female? Do you blame their existence on "the fall"? If so, aren't you now extrapolating beyond scripture into (as you put it) "opinion" (or as most Bible scholars would term it, "interpretation")?

Speaking of "opinion"/"interpretation"... I'm having trouble finding out much about Jack Hibbs' educational background. Where did he receive his formal biblical and theological training? Or is he just winging it? I ask because I know that many Calvary Chapel pastors are not well educated. For myself, I am seminary trained, with a Master's degree. My understanding of scripture, including what scripture says (and doesn't say) about homosexuality is based on rigorous study using proper hermeneutics. This provides at least some safeguard against simply spouting one's opinions or parroting what one has been taught by one's (equally uneducated) mentors.

Regarding your use of the word "lifestyle"... I'm curious to know exactly what you mean by "lifestyle." The reason I ask is that I know many LGBTQ people and many married LGBTQ couples. Some of the most mature and devout Christians I know--who consistently bear fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22-23)--also happen to be lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender or queer. Their "lifestyle" looks pretty much like mine and, I would assume, yours. They go to work, go to church, go shopping, raise their kids, pay their taxes, pay their mortgage, etc. I find nothing particularly condemnatory in that.

1:29 PM  
Blogger Bible Believing Christian said...

Amen! Thank-you.

8:15 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

We have found a tear ladies and gentlemen. 30years of being a christian? Why does it sound like u are a new believer. Jesus died for everyone, but how is it bad to tell people the sin is wrong? The bible speaks for its self. It has no opinion. Lying with a man like a woman is an abomination. Plain and simple, u can even read it from the new living translation. Its not ur opinion or his that matters, its the bible. BIBLE=TRUTH

12:05 PM  
Blogger Daniel P. (Danny) Coleman said...

Hi Joshua! FYI, it's "tare," not "tear." :)

4:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I choose to follow the God inspired Holy Word. That's what Jack Hibb preaches. End of story.

8:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Danny. Trans gender people have it rough enough without haveing to defend themselvs to opeionated people especially when the only openion that counts is that of Christ.

8:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sin is sin is sin. Is sin other then being gay a less sin? So if you don't include All sinners into your church then why are you that think you should not allow LGBT allowed in the church? God loves ALL and can forgive ALL right?

10:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let the first one without sin go tell the gay visitor or member to leave the church.

10:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do you condemn all the other sinful lifestyles of all the other church members as you do the gate person. If not then you are being selectively condemning All sin is sin in the sight of God. Just because we see gay lifestyle being a very visual sin and not being able to hide it as easy doesn't make it any worse or better. Point out the sin biblically and treat them the same as aLL other sinners

10:41 PM  
Blogger Brother Derek B said...

Danny, after reading your comments, I am confused as to what your post is really about. Is it that LBGTQ people are really no different than you or me or that homosexuality is a sin in the Bible?

If it is the former, then I totally agree with you. Any Christian knows that the heart in ALL human beings is wicked from birth. This is why we need Jesus in order to stand in right-standing before God. Gay people, or anybody else, is no different. We are all the same in this respect.

If it is the latter, then you are simple deceived if you believe that homosexuality is not considered a sin in the Bible. A child could tell you that from a plain reading of scripture. No higher education required and the verses that point this out are many.

Jack Hibbs is a good pastor and speaks from the Word of God. This is not in question by anybody I know who....reads the Word of God.

4:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A True Born of the Holy Spirit persons still struggles against the sins in their flesh,
But they don't take the Holy Scriptures and twist them to approve sin.
If you are acutely doing that, and say the the Holy Spirit is leading you to di this, you might want to ask the Spirit
Why Homesexuality is ranked as a SIN IN THE BIBLE!!

7:22 PM  
Blogger TheBoev said...

Aren't we taught to be like Jesus? To love the sinner regardless of the sin? Taking His name in vain, coveting, murder are all sins in the eyes of God. No sin is more grievous than the other. We don't cast out sinners, we love them where they are. Judgement is not mine or yours to heap upon your brothers and sisters in Christ. When I stand in front of my Father I believe he will look at me and see if I loved fully, gave of myself to those in need, and acted as close to the way His son taught us as I could as a broken human. He won't be looking for whether or not I stood in condemnation of sinners. God's grace is infinite, nothing mere humans can comprehend. Jesus paid the price for my sin as he did for all who believe.

8:24 AM  
Anonymous Cova said...

Danny, you accuse Jack of being proud and haughty, vindictive, mean,ideological, and fear-mongering. I see nothing of those qualities in Jack Hibbs and I listened to the same Sermon. From your letter it sounds as if these characteristics, could be attributed to you. Why do you fear the Truth of the Word of God? This letter of yours is indeed mean, vindictive, insulting, and haughty! Surely you can not be proud of this letter, when you share none of the love, or grace of our Dear Lord. You sound like a very angry man, and a very deceived man. If you believed the Holy Spirit of God was with the LGBTQ that day you so "humbly" put yourself in their midst, I fear you may be deceived, as the Holy Spirit would not pour itself out on a group of unrepentant sinners, and would be considered an abomination by our Lord. Perhaps you are so angry as a result of questioning your own sexuality and are in fact struggling right now with GOD. In any case a bit of further self examination might be a good idea, as you have clearly been deceived by the father of lies. Yes Danny the apostasy has begun and it has started with people such as yourself, when you have the audacity to call another, whether he be a man of God or not , an ahole.I fear Jesus would not be very happy with you in that regard. Oh and one more thing , it's not very "humble" to say that you are "humble". Take a look in the Spiritual Mirror , my friend .

7:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Danny Coleman it IS people like you that is morally bankrupt and goes against all that the God of Abraham,Isaac and Jacob declared to be good in HIS sight and we Christains just sat on our hands while lawlessness was changing all that God established. I believe it was demonic forces that made so many of us sympathetic to the homosexual community. We had this attitude "aww,god(god of this world that is loves them we must love them) NO!!! we must NOT accept this lifestyle and continue to be silent ...Not sure in what spirit you are trying to fool ppl with,but I see right through your subtlety in how you began your letter as subtle. No matter how politically correct of how you ppl twist the WORD of God it is time that we Christains stand up and reject this!

11:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

People who struggle with the sin of homosexuality are welcome in the church as are all of us sinners. But all of us are expected by God to turn grom our sins and at some point completely overcone tge behavior and replace it with God's virtues and with a new lifestyle. This applies to prideful, liars, thieves, people having premarital sex, people cheating on their spouses, molesters, drug dealers, drug addicts, porn stars, porn viewers, party animals, drunkards, self righteous people, homosexual people abd some. The point is that whatever our sin struggles are, God will take us as we are but expects us to abanfon ans denounce those sins. In the context, homosexuals cant keep practicing the sin and still claim to walk with Jesus too. They should have support as they wrestle with this difficult struggle but should eventually overcome practicing it. I say this with love and empathy for a struggle that is very real and about many sincere people dealing with homosexuality.

12:04 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Amen

4:15 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Hey Mr Anon! The New Teastment comes down hard on sexual sin as it points out the exact nature of sexual sin and what’s does to the believer. So we can see that sexual sin has a massive impact with massive consequences, more so than say the sin of lying, gossip & slander. So grow up, get real & get honest!

5:01 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You seem to have an answer for everything. The thing you should be worried about is answering to God for leading people away from His truth. You are on VERY dangerous ground as anyone who leads one of his little ones astray are.

8:36 AM  
Blogger Daniel P. (Danny) Coleman said...

Merry Christmas Anonymous!

9:33 AM  
Anonymous Peter Nick said...

Quote !! "I AM A CONTEMPLATIVE PROGRESSIVE CHRISTIAN"

Sorry no such being exists. In addition to the other apostasies spouted by you, you probably favor abortions on demand as a means of contraception up to and beyond due dates. Your fellow progressives are all into this as well. Have been responsible for nearly as many human deaths and suffering as this other well known progressive cult - Marxists. Governor moonbeam believes that any of us who deny the progressive orthodoxy can't be Christians. But he has less of an audience than even Jesus.

God through Jesus can forgive even this, but you had better hurry. If you had paid attention to the Old Testament you might realize that the window between the renewal and return of Israel and the end of the world are within the space of a single person's lifetime

12:01 PM  
Blogger Daniel P. (Danny) Coleman said...

Happy New Year Peter Nick and thanks for visiting my blog! I never cease to be entertained by the comments left here by Jack Hibbs' defenders.

7:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You end your letter to Pastor Jack Hibbs by calling him a curse word. I believe the spirit that is guiding you has a name. It is not a holy name. You have been guided by the father of lies that old serpent the devil. I pray the you break free.

10:47 PM  
Anonymous lance said...

Don't throw your pearls people. I believe it says in the new T, that if they are not going to listen throw them out of the Church. That is not loving or even nice, but God said let it happen. God would have saved the whole city if there would have found one good in S &G. So I am sorry for you Danny. You speak of a different Holy Spirit then I serve.

9:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just remember what is said in Matthew 7: Not all that say Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of Heaven. Just because there is a group that believes in the homosexual lifestyle doesn't mean that it isn't sin. Those that don't repent their sins and stay right with Jesus will meet their second death. I will pray for you and those in your community that you repent. I would never want to hear the Lord say "depart from me, you workers of inequity. I never knew you

6:56 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

There is no ambiguity in the Bible concerning homosexuality...it is condemned in the Old Testament and condemned in the new testament. There really is no room for debate...Homosexuality is a sin, it's as simple as that.

12:18 AM  
Blogger Daniel P. (Danny) Coleman said...

What's funny about your assertion that "there really is no room for debate" is that there is, in fact, considerable debate going on. More and more Christians, and Christian leaders, are concluding that the interpretation that "homosexuality is a sin, it's as simple as that" is mistaken and has caused terrible damage.

8:45 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Let's assess what's really going on here. The Biblical stance on homosexuality is clear: it's a sin. BUT YOU DON'T LIKE THAT. And you don't WANT homosexuality to be a sin. And you meet nice homosexual couples who you feel love each-other and you think there's nothing wrong with what they are doing. Not to mention the moral-climate is such that it is difficult to oppose homosexuality because you may be labeled a bigot, homophobe, etc. And so because of all the aforementioned you don't WANT homosexuality to be a sin and so you are trying to conjure up explanations as to why the Bible doesn't say/mean what it very clearly says/means. It's a sin, there's no room for debate...but that doesn't stop people such as yourself from pretending like there is.

11:19 AM  
Blogger Daniel P. (Danny) Coleman said...

It is amazing how much you assume to know about other people's thoughts and motivations. ;^)

11:26 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Whatever the reason(s) is/are, you are embracing homosexuality not because of what the Bible says but because of some personal motivation. Homosexuals should be loved like any other sinner, homosexuals should be allowed into church like any other sinner. A born-again homosexual may still struggle with homosexuality just like any born-again individual can continue to struggle with their pre-salvation sins. But you are doing nobody any favors by assuring them their sin is God-sanctioned, and to a degree you should be ashamed of yourself.

11:45 AM  
Blogger Daniel P. (Danny) Coleman said...

Once more, despite not knowing me you assume to know much about me...

Untold multitudes have been profoundly harmed (including having their faith destroyed and even being driven to suicide) by harsh, judgmental, and ignorant rhetoric like that spouted by Jack Hibbs and yourself.

The reality is that there is a massive shift taking place of how Christians understand what scripture says about homosexuality and what God's orientation is toward people who are LGBTQ. I believe it is a Spirit-led shift back to the radical inclusiveness that Jesus modeled and taught. You (and Hibbs) can rail against it all you like, but that shift is still occurring.

I don't expect you to agree with my position at this juncture but, like so many of us, you may find yourself at some point (perhaps, like me, after extensive prayer and Bible study) having a change of mind (or, to use a Biblical term, repenting). Or maybe not. Either way, the fundamentalist Christianity taught by Jack Hibbs is rapidly losing influence and credibility because it has been so wrong and so hurtful in so many ways.

12:05 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Like I've said this whole time (and which you have yet to overtly disagree with): the Bible is clear with respect to homosexuality, but you don't like what it says. So you keep watering-down Christianity to your heart's content, but some day you will have to answer to God for perverting His word and calling that "progress".

12:27 PM  
Blogger Daniel P. (Danny) Coleman said...

To avoid any ambiguity, here it is: The Bible is not at all clear about homosexuality--and certainly not in the sense that so many fundamentalist evangelicals have been taught. If one is genuinely interested in looking into why I say that, the hyperlinks in my original post will direct one to excellent resources that go into great detail. If one is not genuinely interested in considering that possibility, then there is little more that I can say or do.

12:51 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

I appreciate your willingness to post comments from opposing view points. Good day.

12:53 PM  
Blogger Daniel P. (Danny) Coleman said...

Thank you. And good day to you too.

1:04 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

I would like to issue you an apology. Although I stand by everything I said, I would like to apologize for my tone. I went back and re-read your original blog post and your point was not so much that homosexuality is not a sin, as much as it was that homosexuals ought to be approached in a particular manner. So I apologize for the overall tone of my responses.

I would like to say a couple of other things though. I actually attend Calvary Chapel Chino Hills and I think that, overall, Jack Hibbs is an outstanding pastor. With respect to the sermon you heard, there are two ways of looking at what he said. Obviously you take what he said in an cocky/harsh/mean type of way. Given the climate at the time with respect to homosexuality, and given that the courts had effectively bypassed the will of the people by implementing gay marriage, I took his attitude as bold/brave/powerful. IMO it took a lot of courage for Jack to take that strong of a stance at that time given Southern California's attitude towards homosexuality and what the courts had just done. BUT I do agree with you that the general approach with respect to homosexuals ought to be that of compassion/love just like it ought to be for any sinner.

Lastly, even though this may just upset you, I would nonetheless like to extend some compassion to you. You live in Seattle which, from my experience, is even more gay than San Francisco. When I was in Seattle for three weeks I saw an unbelievable amount of homosexual couples...and this is coming from a guy who lives in Southern California. So I can imagine what it must be like for you up there. So many gay couples everywhere you go, probably many gay co-workers, gay friends, gay neighbors, gay people in the church; and presumably many of the homosexuals you know/interact-with are very pleasant people. I could see how living in such a place, especially if it has been for a prolonged period of time, could put you in a position to want to reject homosexuality as a sin ESPECIALLY given the harsh attitude of many Christian pastors. But nonetheless I think that if you are completely honest with yourself you will admit that you know what the Bible's stance on homosexuality is, even though you may not fully understand why God feels the way He does, and even though you wish His attitude was different.

9:42 PM  
Blogger Daniel P. (Danny) Coleman said...

I appreciate and accept your kind apology. I don't take things personally and nothing you wrote upset me.

However, as Ronald Reagan said to Jimmy Carter in the 1980 debates, "There you go again." Your last paragraph is, once more, filled with elaborate (and mostly wrong) assumptions about me and why I hold the convictions I do regarding God's view toward people who are LGBTQ.

So, without going into too much detail, allow me to offer a brief explanation:

I became a born-again Christian in 1984, as a young man, and for several decades was part of churches not unlike Calvary Chapel. So I know the doctrines and culture well. Over the course of the 34 years that I've been a Christian I have served as a worship leader, small group leader, Bible study leader, youth minister, pastor, teacher and elder. For most of those years I believed as you and Hibbs do about homosexuality, because that's what I had been taught. I did not have any close friends or relatives who were gay and I myself am about as heterosexual as they come. Because of my involvement in ministries I did, from time to time, have a church-goer or a teen or person I was ministering to confess to me that they were "struggling" with homosexuality and were desperate for God to heal them of it. And I would pray for them to be delivered from it.

As I became a more mature Christian I also became a serious student (and eventually teacher) of the Bible. As I really dug in to scripture--like the Bereans of Paul's day--I began to realize that certain things I had been taught (typically by pastors who, like Hibbs, had little formal education) were overly simplistic and even in some cases flat wrong. Sometimes pastors had simply been repeating what they had been taught by their pastors (or by teachers on the radio). In studying church history I discovered that over the course of two millenia the church has had multiple competing views about various theological topics, such as the atonement or eschatology or free-will vs. predestination or slavery or the role of women in the church. I also realized that these topics were usually much more nuanced than the simplistic black and white views that I had been taught.

One of the topics (among many) that I eventually studied in-depth was what the Bible actually says about homosexuality. In looking at the original Hebrew (OT) and Greek (NT), as well as the original historical/cultural contexts--and reading lots and lots of diverse viewpoints from Biblical scholars--I ultimately concluded that almost all of the passages in scripture used to condemn homosexuality did not, in their original context, apply to homosexuality as we know it today (the most blatant example of this is the story of Lot which Jack Hibbs used in his prediction that I found so offensive).

I must add that I very much believe in the Holy Spirit as our Teacher and Guide and, throughout my decades of study I have always felt that the Spirit has been leading me. I also believe that education and scholarship are not things to be despised.

9:33 AM  
Blogger Daniel P. (Danny) Coleman said...

(Continued...)
As it gradually dawned on me that I had imbibed and followed bad teaching about homosexuality it also dawned on me that I had said and done (like Hibbs) very hurtful things to people who were LGBTQ. To be frank, I too had been an asshole--in the name of Jesus. I began to hear about Christians who were showing up at Gay Pride parades to apologize to LGBTQ folks for the hurt they had caused, and that struck me as a very humble and healing Christian thing to do.

Then came my "Cornelius moment." I was attending a class at a seminary in the mid-west and somehow found out that the Gay Christian Network was having their annual convention in Chicago during a weekend I had free. I decided to drive to Chicago and see for myself. I went with the attitude that I was going to observe and listen and learn and be guided by the Holy Spirit (and, of course, scripture). I didn't know what to expect and had some trepidation going in. What I encountered were hundreds of gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender and queer Christians (and some straight folks too) worshipping Jesus with all of their hearts. The Holy Spirit was manifestly present. It was powerful and profound and grace-filled and Christ-centered and deeply holy. I felt like Peter in Acts 10 when he has his long-held presuppositions about gentiles blown away by God.

Of course, my shift in views put me at odds with many of my brothers and sisters in Christ--including in my own church. So it would have been far easier for me to not question, not explore, not dig deeper, but simply stick with the status quo. But I had become convinced by scripture and the Holy Spirit, and then by direct experience, that being homosexual is not a sin and that God loves and accepts LGBTQ people just as they are and that the church should do likewise. As Martin Luther said when on trial at the Diet of Worms in 1521, "I cannot and will not recant anything, for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. Here I stand, I can do no other, so help me God. Amen."

It was only after all this that I began to seek out and get to know some LGBTQ people in my vicinity. Some have become close friends. I can honestly tell you that, having been a Christian for 34 years, some of the most godly, devout, wise, gracious, humble and Christ-like disciples I have ever met also happen to be gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender. Perhaps it is because they have suffered so much at the hands of their brothers and sisters in Christ and have had to forgive so much and for so long had little to cling to except Christ Himself. They are beautiful and beloved people, not the violent perverted monsters that Jack Hibbs portrays them as.

Well, I guess that explanation wasn't so brief after all... ;^)

9:34 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Well I apologize for my assumptions but nonetheless I cannot agree that homosexuality is not a sin, nor do I agree that passages in scripture dealing with homosexuality are mistranslated, taken out of context, etc. And to be clear this isn't what Calvary Chapel taught me, I attend Calvary Chapel because they don't compromise the Word...I got Saved in a park in Hawaii Kai with nothing more than a Bible and an open heart...and I relied on the Bible and the Holy Spirit for months before actually stepping foot in a church.

With regard to the "harm" done to the homosexual community at the hands of Christians, I mean, Christians have caused a lot of problems for occultists too lol. I agree that homosexuals should be treated with love/care/respect but Christianity "causing homosexuals problems" is precisely what one would expect for people so steeped in a particular sin that they cannot even phathom repenting of it. I mean, I have known NON-HOMOSEXUALS guilty of this...people who were stewing in a particular sin and even dying in a particular sin that they simply could not see as "wrong"...so I see no reason to think homosexuals are any different; they are simply people who are so locked-in to a particular sin that it escapes them that anything sinful is ocurring.



2:58 PM  
Blogger Daniel P. (Danny) Coleman said...

Thank you for the dialog and for sharing your views.

4:38 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

You as well.

4:41 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Unfortunately, and as harsh as it may sound, and maybe could have been delivered in different ways, the message Pastor Hibbs tells us all, is the gay sinner is to be loved, their sin/ lifestyle is not to be supported, as it is not in the desire of God, and as is clearly noted in several scriptures. Without repentance, this sinful behavior along with several sinful behaviors will exclude those from eternal salvation and a place alongside the Lord. 1Cor6:9

7:24 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Perhaps you need to study further scripture, you still are confused regardless of your education. Hopefully through enough study and understanding,one day the truth will be revealed to you

7:32 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

You are wrong. That is not the Holy Spirit speaking to you encouraging the acceptance of sin. I suggest to you that you have allowed the enemy to guide you rather than the Holy Spirit. You need to repent of this and turn away from it. Jack Hibbs and true Bible believing Christian's love others enough to tell them the truth. You cannot serve the world and God at the same time. It is impossible. Choose God.

10:14 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

You keep talking about how you, the church, everyone has changed their thoughts and opinions on homosexuality. Here is a news flash for you GOD NEVER CHANGES. HE IS THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND FOREVER. AMEN. Nobody is spewing hate or exclusion of any person but as Christian's we cannot condone a
LGTBQ lifestyle. We can include but not condone. Live them enough to tell them the truth. If you are a pastor as you say, then you know that you are going to be held to a higher standard. Hieresy is a bad path for you or anyone to travel.

10:22 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Your education seems to have destroyed your relationship with God, if in fact you ever had one. If you are truly saved, God will not let go of you but will let you stay. You will have to answer some day not to man but to God for what you have done in deceivingly others causing them to stumble.

10:29 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

You are just being a jerk. Not at all Christ like. Glad I do not attend your church. Talk about lack of grace. Take a good long look at the man in the mirror.

10:34 PM  
Anonymous Ben McGee said...

Ok Danny, you expose your study of the original language, please explain how scripture defines homosexuality as not a sin. I believe jack hit an open nerve that really Offended you, so your true root of of hate is with Hibbs then expanding to God. I read your answers and your anger and bitterness are very present. Danny the only debate is between liberal theologians trying to ignore the sin in all who are lost. They ignore the gospel,the rapture, and the non debatable word of God. We must come to Christ only, not debating theologians. My prayers are you will return to the Christ you followed, before bitterness and anger directed your now confused path. Hibbs is not the problem, only those who pervert the truth of God’s word. Please do not talk down to me. That dog don’t hunt hunt, and you are in trouble with your twisted explanations of Gods word. Ben

9:49 AM  
Anonymous Ben McGee said...

Bye the way Danny, I do not wish to read your book list. I am sure it supports your confused beliefs. The Bible will not support you so you go looking for whatever will. You think yourself an intellectual, but I tell you the man educated or not, who reads Gods word for love, peace and direction, leave you in the dust. Ben McGee

9:58 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

With much love Danny, I would like to kindly rebuke you.

Romans 1:24-32 (KJV)
“24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”

Notice how Paul explains homosexuality as leaving the natural use in verse 27 (And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly) then in the very next verse explains that those people “did not like to retain God in their knowledge,” and because of that “God gave them over to a reprobate mind”. He then groups them into all different sins. He then says knowing the judgement of God, that those who do those things are worthy of death, not only do the same, because but HAVE PLEASUREin those that do them. Sir, th Holy Spirit did not lead you to this conclusion. You may want to pray God has not given you over to a reprobate mind.

I leave you with one more thing. A question rather. PLEASE give us the translation, book, chapter, and verse in the Bible that says homosexuality is ok with God. Because you spoke of the great apostasy in the end times, that is mentioned several times in the Bible and then turn around and say that “more and more Christians and Christian leaders” feel a certain way..... did you miss what the great apostasy and FALLING AWAY meant? Cause it sounds to me like you think you know what God meant to say and He didnt. Again, as Paul said, loving the creature more than the Creator. You apparently would rather read books by men than the book by God.

No one thinks they can’t come to church, we encourage them to come to church so they can hear the gospel, repent, believe and trust in Jesus, and be saved, but its exactly why we want them to come to church, they’re lost in sin.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (KJV)
“9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, NOR ABUSERS OF THEMSELVES WITH MANKIND,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.”

Why don’t you take this up with God instead of boasting to the world?

Isaiah 41:21(KJV)
“Produce your cause, saith the LORD; bring forth your strong reasons, saith the King of Jacob.”

The NKJV says it even more clear....


21 “Present your case,” says the Lord.
“Bring forth your strong reasons,” says the King of Jacob.

10:47 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Debating Danny is like wrestling with a pig in the mud , after awhile you realize that the pig enjoys it.

7:45 PM  
Blogger Daniel P. (Danny) Coleman said...

I don't necessarily enjoy it, but I do reserve the right to engage with people who post comments on MY BLOG. ;^)

7:25 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you for posting your letter. Hibbs is a false prophet, spewing hate of all people not like himself from his pulpit. He is promoting a “Counterfeit Christianity” where the weak minded are inclined to follow like lamb to the slaughter.
Read about the Anti-Christ....just saying.......

7:31 AM  
Blogger Vintage Trailer People said...

Dear Dan, Pastor Jack is announced by God teaching the truth. I'm praying for you.

6:26 PM  
Blogger Daniel P. (Danny) Coleman said...

I bet you are. ;^)

7:50 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

God loves the sinner but not the sin ? Then why did He send the flood to wipe them all of the earth ?

3:43 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

God cannot "make" you a homosexual and then condemn it in the Old and New Testament. The Holy Spirit will never lead you contrary to Gods word. However, we are to speak the truth in love. No one was ever won over to Jesus by anger or arrogance. I have not heard the message by Pastor Hibbs and I don't even know him but it seems to me that your conversation should be with God and it should be an honest conversation about how you try to qualify your behavior and pick scriptures that address your cause when you really need to line up your life with God's word. God condemns all sorts of sexual sin not just homosexuality. We all fall short in many many different ways everyday. I don't believe you ever go to hell for being a homosexual I think it is only I believe in the atoning death of Jesus that send you to hell. Hell is always our choice and not God's. I pray that God will open your eyes to see the truth and I say that with love knowing that God creates everybody beautifully and I think we get in our own way and try to make God's word line up with our lives when it should be the opposite and we all do it. If we're being honest with ourselves. Take care

5:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You are absolutely correct, Steveo. The Bible warns against false teachings and churches in the Last Days...

11:05 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Danny,
The Holy Spirit does not conflict with Biblical Doctrine. You are believing a doctrine of demons. Gay and transgender people are welcome in the Church, but their sin is still sin. Jesus loves the LGBT community, but he NEVER condones sin and he never changes his mind. We need look no further than Scripture for the Truth, God's Truth.

11:08 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

God loves ALL and can forgive all, but forgiveness requires repentance. You can not repent of a sin you don't believe is a sin in the first place. Those practicing homosexuality...or any kind of sexual immorality or sin...need to be dealt with as God tells us in the Bible...lovingly with Truth and grace.

11:10 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jack Hibbs is spot on. Unfortunately, you and others like you are horribly mistaken in your exegesis and are a danger to the sheep that so deeply want to believe what you say instead of what God says...

11:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

T. Anders. You're right. His argument is with God, Himself.

11:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Danny,
Your argument about those born "intersex" is tired and old. Just because you are seminary trained with a Master's degree does not mean you are a child of God.

11:16 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

AMEN!!

11:17 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amen and Amen!

11:18 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It doesn't matter what "more and more Christians" are concluding. It only matters what God says, and that is, His word is infallible. Yours is not. Neither is mine. And his Word never changes. Nor does He.

11:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amen.

11:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We don't need hyperlinks and we aren't interested in what you say....we are only interested in the Truth of God. If the Spirit is not making the following verse clear to you, then you are hearing from a different spirit.

Romans 1: 26-28
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

11:23 AM  
Blogger Daniel P. (Danny) Coleman said...

Hmmm... The fact that you just posted eleven comments in a row leads me to believe that you are, in fact, *very* interested in what I say (albeit, not in a positive way). :)

1:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Danny, you seem to be so preoccupied with worldly things. You are so bothered about Pastor Jack Hibbs biblical and theological education. So did all Jesus disciples go to university? Your so-called education has not helped you and is no indication that you are a true man of God and what you are spewing out of your mouth is arrogance all the way through.

You are more bothered about calling people out on here for A spelling mistake (tear instead of tare) that is ridiculous. Even Jesus called people out to repent of their sins.8 A true Christian will warn people of their sins that they may come to repentance.

To me you really sound like a wolf in sheep's clothing. You sound like yu have been won over by deception, political correctness, pride and arrogance instead of being a shepherd for the lost sheep. Take a closer look at yourself, no matter how many degrees you have means nothing at all. You are not getting into Heaven based on your merits and degrees!

5:15 PM  
Blogger Daniel P. (Danny) Coleman said...

Thirteen accusatory references to "you" and "your" in three paragraphs. That's impressive. ;^)

In the 3+ years since I originally published this post, I've never ceased to be amused by the comments submitted by those seeking to defend Jack Hibbs. I can only assume that the haughty and pharisaical tone of most of these comments comes as a direct result of Mr. Hibbs' teaching and example.

Funnily enough, I would have completely forgotten that I had made this post were it not for the occasional angry commentor to remind me.

1:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

mutual respect is one thing, but fellowship is a different story danny my boy. i respect ALL human beings, made in the image god and with the potential to be called children of god. notice that i am inferring that not everybody is a child of god. you have to be born again and grafted into that branch. the bible is offensive to many, even myself at times. but whatever. god is god, and he can do as he pleases. have you checked the universe lately? you and i are nothing. god rules.

12:48 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Fundamentalist Christianity losing influence and credability is a condition of this evil world. That statement is a poor foundation for your "evangelism. I pray for you. Vanity and academic ego seem to be guiding your ministry.

11:19 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Amen pastor Jack, Steveo and fellow followers of YHWH's word!!! Paul even exposes the sin of unlawful sex practiced by women with animals and men with men in Romans. I'm sorry Danny but maybe you need to read and focus more on what the bible states and less on what the schools and man are teaching today. We have to teach the LGBTQ that their lifestyle is a sin, but we do it out of love to hopfuly open their ears and hearts to the truth. Satan is very skillful at trying to destroy God's commandments and now a days we are more of a 'feels good' society rather than a 'what is right' society.

12:57 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

If this man is a "Bible theologian" than i fear for his followers, the blind leading the blind, being deceived. We are living in perilous times, the Bible is clear

6:48 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Amen

9:40 PM  
Anonymous Linda Clements said...

We are not defending Jack Hibbs. We are defending Gods Laws.

7:04 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

New Christian here. So bare with me. Jesus died for our sins... Right? He paid the bill...He went through hell... Right? The LGBTQ community no matter their sinning affliction trans lesiban amorphodite... if they accept God as their savior and purely believe in the holy spirit they still get their shot in Heaven and judgement...RIGHT? Like I said ive always had faith, but new to the real teachings? I got a long way to go.. everyone I'm listening to says the end is near... zero tolerance for hate speech! We are all human we all sin DAILY like it or not...

10:16 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

@unknown
Homosexuality is not an unforgivable sin, so yes, a homosexual who truly repents and truly comes to accept Jesus as his Savior and receives forgiveness of sins and receives the Holy Spirit is heaven-bound just like any other born-again sinner. But a homosexual's conversion must be REAL, there must be EVIDENCE of salvation in that person's life. This is not to say that the person will never have a homosexual desire again, and it is not even to say that they will never act on a homosexual desire again--but if a homosexual is claiming to be a born-again saved individual and yet has no change with respect to his/her attitude/actions towards homosexuality then that person is likely a false-convert and thus not saved at all. And this applies to ANY sinner. If a man is a drunkard pre-Christ and exhibits no change in attitude/action towards alcohol post-Christ that person is in all likelihood not saved. Christianity is about TRANSFORMATIVE faith, not mere intellectual belief.

And as far as the end being near...nobody really knows. Paul wrote with the tone that he felt the end was near, and that was nearly 2,000 years ago. A good understanding of the notion of the "end is near" comes from Jonah which basically teaches that the end is near until it's not. When Jonah went to preach to the Ninevites he told them they had 40 days to repent until judgement would come. What he told them was correct but they listened and repented and fasted and humbled themselves and thus their judgement was staved-off for decades. The end was near...until it wasn't. When you look at the signs of the times it is clear the world is not doing well and it is reasonable to conclude that the end is not that far off...and indeed if the world continues to wax worse and worse then I would expect to see the 2nd coming of Christ in my lifetime--but if people begin to wake up and repent and come to Christ then who knows how far-off the end actually is.

One thing is for sure: HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN, and people like Danny Coleman are doing nobody any favors by claiming otherwise.

1:07 PM  
Blogger Daniel P. (Danny) Coleman said...

Hello anonymous new Christian! Thank you for taking the time to comment. Here are my responses to your (I assume honest) questions:

>>"Jesus died for our sins... Right?"
Yes. Of course, what exactly that means has been a subject of exploration and debate for the last two millenia. As a new Christian, you may not be aware of the term "Atonement Theory." Atonement Theory asks, what exactly was the point of Jesus's crucifixion? How did it accomplish what it did? Theologians throughout the ages have wrestled with this question. Atonement Theories that developed as a result have names such as Christus Victor, Ransom, Satisfaction, Penal Substitution, Moral Influence, etc. Chances are, you've only been told about one atonement theory and, chances are, it was the Penal Substitution theory. This is the theory that is taught at Calvary Chapel churches and, assuming that's were you attend, you have probably not been taught about the other theories or even told that there are other theories.
More info: http://dannycoleman.blogspot.com/2007/09/atonement.html

>>"Right? He paid the bill..."
See above answer.

>>"He went through hell... Right?"
The Bible doesn't teach that Jesus went to (or through) hell, although some Christians have interpreted certain passages (particularly 1 Peter 3:19) to say that. The popularization of the belief that Jesus went through hell can be traced back to the Apostle's Creed, an early statement of Christians beliefs from the 4th century. However, the phrase "he descended into hell" was not in the oldest versions of the Apostle's Creed; it was added a bit later and was never accepted by large portions of Christendom (such as the Eastern Orthodox church). It wasn't until the mid-8th century that the Catholic church church officially adopted the idea that Jesus descended to/through hell. I'm guessing you haven't been taught about this at your church.
Source: https://www.christianitytoday.com/history/2008/august/was-phrase-he-descended-into-hell-always-part-of-apostles.html

>>"The LGBTQ community no matter their sinning affliction trans lesiban amorphodite... if they accept God as their savior and purely believe in the holy spirit they still get their shot in Heaven and judgement...RIGHT?"
There are several flaws in your premise. First, instead of talking about "the LGBTQ community" (whatever that means), let's talk about people; about individuals. Jesus saw people. He saw individuals.

When you say "amorphodite" I assume you means "hermaphrodite" (since "amorphodite" isn't a word). Being hermaphrodite (nowadays the term "intersex" is typically used) is a biological condition whereby an organism has ambiguous sexuality (such as having female genetalia but XY male chromosomes or a male with XY chromosomes who has a uterus, etc.). There are many forms and variations of this and it occurs throughout the animal kingdom, not just in humans. This is not a "sinning affliction," just a biological anomaly. The Bible does not address intersexuality.

Regarding homosexuality and transgendered-ness, these are also not "sinning afflictions" and the Bible doesn't teach that they are (although I have no doubt that you have been taught otherwise). They are simply characteristics that a subset of individuals (both humans and animals) possess. Rather than rehash the reasons why homosexuality and transgender is not sin, I would direct you to the list of excellent resources I have provided already in the original post and in previous comments.

Lastly, I know many LGBTQI ("I" for Intersex) people who are devout Christians. In fact, some of the most grace-filled, genuine, Spirit-filled and Christ-like Christians I have ever met have been gay, lesbian, transgender, etc.

(To be continued...)

10:17 AM  
Blogger Daniel P. (Danny) Coleman said...

(Continued...)

>>"Like I said ive always had faith, but new to the real teachings? I got a long way to go.."
When someone says "real teachings" that is a big red flag. If your church and pastor are claiming that they have the "real teachings" (implying that most others don't) it is a sure sign that you have stumbled into a fundamentalist dead-end. My advice is to get away from those folks as quickly as you can and find a church that teaches a humble and inclusive Gospel more in line with the character of Jesus.

>>"everyone I'm listening to says the end is near..."
This is a core teaching of the Calvary Chapel. It is not a core teaching of Christianity. Another term you might want to study is "eschatology." Eschatology means the study of end-times, or "where is this all heading?" Like with "atonement theories" there have been many different views about eschatology within Christianity throughout the ages. These include Historicism (very popular among the Reformers), Idealism (common in Catholicism), Preterism (partial and full), Futurism (which includes Dispensationalism, Millenniumism, etc.). Within each of these "isms" there are many variations. No doubt you have been taught only one, very specific and recent eschatological viewpoint (based upon Futurist pre-Millennial Dispensationalism), and you have not been told that there are other views, much less been instructed about what these views contain, how and why they developed, or their relative merits.

>>"zero tolerance for hate speech!"
Thank you for that. However, I have heard with my own ears Jack Hibbs use hate speech. Pronouncing that gay people intend to break into your home and rape you is hate speech. If you truly have zero tolerance for hate speech, I would advise you to distance yourself from those who use it.

>>"We are all human we all sin DAILY like it or not..."
Amen to that.

10:18 AM  
Blogger Daniel P. (Danny) Coleman said...

Hello Philosophical Christian,

Reading your post reminds me of how grateful I am to have grown beyond the narrow, legalistic, Pharisaical, sin-fixated, fundamentalist Christianity that used to dictate the bleak way in which I saw the world.

1:14 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

You know Danny, a number of people here have corrected you with sound biblical opposition and you just continue to have this passive-aggressive attitude wherein you boast about how non-Christian you are. Your attitude matches up with NOBODY in the New Testament. Not Jesus, not Paul, not Peter...nobody. Jesus was very anti-sin, that's why he died for our sins! That's why he told the woman who got caught committing adultery to "go and sin no more". That's why he said "except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." Paul wrote numerous letters condemning sin, as did everyone else in the new testament. Everyone in the New Testament is overtly anti-sin and here you are touting your watered-down wimpy conception of Christianity as if it's and upgrade...it's absurd.

Of course love is a big deal as well; love is mentioned many many times throughout scripture. Paul emphasizes that he could have all the gifts in the world but if he has not love/charity then they all amount to nothing. Jesus says that all of the OT hangs on 2 commandments: love your neighbor and love God. But being loving does not mean forgoing an understanding of what sin is, as well as an understanding of the weight of sin; and these notions are made perfectly clear by all of the anti-sin writings found within the New Testament including within the words of Christ himself.

4:08 PM  
Blogger Daniel P. (Danny) Coleman said...

Thank you, Philosophical Christian, for reinforcing my point.

7:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As so many have pointed out and tried to correct Danny, he is clearly a) not wanting to admit he is in error and is thriving and feeding off all this attention, feeding his ego; b) a sheep in wolf's clothing. Danny, a sin is a sin; you cannot dress it down, loving our neighbour is not inclusive of loving their sin. Be warned you are creating your own doctrine and we are warned of this. What does the bible tell us? Not to judge but to correct those in error or sin in a humble way and if that person is not listening and turning from their ways we as believers are to dust our sandals and walk away. Perhaps it is time to leave Mr Coleman to himself and his God??? This thread is just serving to feed his Ego, nothing more. I pray that God will shine his light in the darkness.

1:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As so many have pointed out and tried to correct Danny, he is clearly a) not wanting to admit he is in error and is thriving and feeding off all this attention, feeding his ego; b) a sheep in wolf's clothing. Danny, a sin is a sin; you cannot dress it down, loving our neighbour is not inclusive of loving their sin. Be warned you are creating your own doctrine and we are warned of this. What does the bible tell us? Not to judge but to correct those in error or sin in a humble way and if that person is not listening and turning from their ways we as believers are to dust our sandals and walk away. Perhaps it is time to leave Mr Coleman to himself and his God??? This thread is just serving to feed his Ego, nothing more. I pray that God will shine his light in the darkness.

1:34 AM  
Blogger Daniel P. (Danny) Coleman said...

And yet I'm not the one posting unsolicited anonymous comments on a stranger's website. ;^)

Here's what Jesus taught: Love your neighbor and worry about your own sin. Go thou and do likewise.

8:38 AM  
Blogger Shellbellbutterfly said...

Danny, It's unbelievably hypocritical to see you give "blessings" after you use disgusting language and claim to represent Jesus. You are deceived & are leading others (in ignorance) MORE astray. You are CLEARLY not born again. Blessings to KNOW Jesus. 🙋
💔👣👣💖

11:33 AM  
Blogger Daniel P. (Danny) Coleman said...

Hello Shellbellbutterfly,
I don't claim to represent Jesus, but I do attempt to follow him. It is interesting that you find my language "disgusting" but you don't seem disgusted that Jack Hibbs has characterized gay people as violent rapists.

1:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Danny, be careful with the Jack Hibbs cult. They are currently trying to make the school district into a parochial district. They show up to meeting with really bizarre claims about the district's sex ed policy that are direct parroting of what their cult leader says... and not only is it not true, it is blatantly stupid. They could create their own parochial program at the church reflecting their views and opt out their child from sex ed (which is their right, add per ed code). Instead they are demanding the district change the school's change the entire curriculum to something they approve of. Their demands for a bible study elective in the high schools cost tens of thousands of dollars, and yet less than 30 of their children signed up. Pathetic. If you want to see something scary look up James na rant on YouTube. He is a school board member elected by the church. And he had cost the school district millions in tax payer money in law suits while he pushes the cult's agenda. I'm remaining anonymous because their cult is made up of some of the most uneducated people i know personally, and i whos not put it past them to attempt to do harm to me or my family.

3:48 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

If gay is OK for some, it must be OK for all and there goes procreation, of the Creator. My sexuality is not my heart core identity. Gays, trans?

Sex can be blinding-bondage in many ways.

5:11 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Sometimes when someone has this type of Downing of any sexually hate it's them with the PROBLEM, One person comes to mind is J Swaggert was so hard on Prostitutes and that was the Very thing he was pertaking IN Gibbs is not the most masculine mam In fact He is Extremely Feminine So if you want to Judge people look in the Mirror. Mr Gibbs are you sucure in your own Sexually Sir...

7:37 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Why would you as you being so harsh on this subject Mr Gibbs, you remind me of j Swaggert when he was condemned Prostitute to hell look what he was doing. Let hope this is not the issue here. Your not the most masculine mam in the world!!!

7:52 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Daniel.. First and foremost I’d like to make it public. I believe in Jesus Christ to be who he says he is and my savior who died for me.

I’m still young in the Kingdom by about two years now. But I’m growing and God has helped me to change drastically.

I’m sorry but I read a lot of what you are saying and I can’t help but feel a huge amount of pride and self proclaiming glory. Keep in mind I’m not here to bash you I’m just making a statement on how I read into your comments. I feel God has led me very quickly into the right direction and I’m still learning. It’s my opinion and not a claim to a fact. I can’t help but cringe at the things you say in your comments. I always think about how Jesus walked and acted here on earth as a man; a perfect example for us.

Remember in the face of many accusations against a guilty party the prostitute. Jesus said, let he who is without sin cast the first stone. He seemed it important to point that out and to make the example that the attack against this woman should cease.

And as I sometimes find myself do as well.. you seem angry in your comments and I feel you’re commenting out of that anger. I often have to remind myself to keep quiet and listen as Jesus said. Wait to speak and not to do so out of anger.

I believe we should give anyone an opportunity to retort and give an explanation. Not just accuse and condemn.

I would think it better instead of a public forum condemning a man; it would be better to have open dialogue. Perhaps in a public manner but doing so gives the accused a chance to explain or refute.

In most of what I learn in the Bible Jesus preached love and I don’t see much of that in my reading of your blog.

I believe better care should be shown; Jesus said not to say things that may stir up anger; I believe when God said this he wasn’t just talking about those we were talking about but friends, family and those around to hear it. For instance this mans congregation. I believe if anything I might say can stir up anger in anyone; not only the defendant. Than it’s probably better left unsaid.

Anything out of my mouth at that point is my own flesh and not of God.

So please understand I don’t mean to sound accusing of you myself. I’m only stating that it kinda portrayed as much to my mind when reading it. That makes it hard as new to the kingdom to follow something I portrayed as much.

As well as I believe when you think someone to be not of the kingdom and lost. Than God would expect me to be more tactical in my presentation to that individual. Only teaching Gods word but in a loving manner that is pleasing to God. Because Jesus said it himself I came not to condemn the world but to save it.

Again this is my opinion and observation.

Thank you and may God bless us all.

8:15 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Ugh.. I somewhat disagree.

All is welcome in God’s kingdom.

Anonymous.. I believe God would welcome all gays into his church and into his kingdom.

The thing we need to remember is none of us are without sin even after we’re saved by God and let his Holy Spirit into our lives.

It is when we learn of God and his saving mercy. When we believe in him and repent for our sins.
When we desire God and want to go to his kingdom that he begins to give us more desire, and begins to make changes in us.

This doesn’t happen over night but day by day. Some sin we conquer over night and others more slowly over our lives.

I remember when a light bulb went off for me. I’d read the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life.

I couldn’t fully understand this.. what was God truest saying to me here. I believe there is more then meets the eye here. I read it this over and over again and was never satisfied with what everyone told me it simply meant.

Then one day as I said a light went off. A thought came in my mind out of nowhere and it made such clear perfect sense.

Because I couldn’t understand how could someone be saved and still be in sin because it is impossible not to be in some kind of sin. We’re imperfect.. we sin.. so how does this pertain to everyone even if you’re saved.

So I believe.. even once you’re saved.. And God welcomes you to his kingdom. You are covered by his grace, he may not approve of your sins but you are covered. Thank God because we suck and still sin.

Covered you may be but the fruits you put forth in life may not be of good fruits. They may be like rotten or distasteful.

The wages of sin is death.. I believe even if you are saved and continue to live in your sins without putting in work through God’s help to change it. You will find your life shortened here on earth. Your works or lack of works don’t change your destination. You’ll still go to heaven if you’re truly saved but you’ll be cursed through your sins.

For instance.. if you continue to live in sin by way of a sexual nature. You may develop/contract a disease that kills you.

If you’re always angry and fighting or arguing with people. Someone one day might pull out a gun and shoot you.

If your angry driving leads you to drive recklessly and cause you to have a crash and die.

If you continue to cheat on a spouse; you may be caught in the act by his or her spouse or your own and they might take your life.

Ect. Ect. Ect.

The wages of sin leads to short life/death on earth and then if saved or unsaved your eternal destination. If unsaved a second eternal death.

So this wouldn’t leave out a homosexual. If they have truly repented and believe in Christ Jesus they would be saved. God wants them to be delivered from their sin of homosexuality but it doesn’t keep them out even if they die in the act of that sin.

But they will be judged for their works toward their heavenly rewards.

8:52 AM  
Blogger Daniel P. (Danny) Coleman said...

Hello Unknown,

Thank you for your thoughtful comment. You may want to read how Jesus addressed the scribes and Pharisees in Matthew 13. Or Paul's opinions expressed in 1 Timothy about those he considered to be false teachers. Or his rebuke to the "foolish Galatians" who had fallen from grace by embracing legalism. Or his public rebuke of Peter, described in Galatians 2:11–14. Or the author of Jude's opinion about false teachers ("clouds without rain", etc.). Or the author of 3 John's comments about Diotrephes. Or dig into the Hebrew prophets (Amos is my favorite). You'll see a lot of righteous anger there. There are many more examples in scripture of people being publicly rebuked for claiming to represent Jesus but behaving like assholes.

Jack Hibbs, and those like him, speak every Sunday--from a stage with a microphone and speakers. They spew hateful, ignorant rhetoric that harms people. Then Hibbs (and those like him) get their rants broadcast on the radio. Where is the "open forum" there? Where is the opportunity for LGBTQ folks who are smeared by Hibbs and his ilk to "explain or refute"?

My advice to you, my newly Christian friend, is to go and read Galatians aloud and in its entirety. Hear, through your own voice, Paul's pleading with the Galatians to not continue down the path of legalism, but to stay in step with the Spirit (which means walking in grace and love and humility). Then pray and ask yourself which path Jack Hibbs is leading you down.

8:52 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

In the beginning God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. I'd say it's fairly obvious what God intended. Sex for some is their own cross, it's a burden, or at least, it can feel like one. Some struggle in other areas that are non sexual in regards to loving others. But we're supposed to pick up our personal cross and follow Jesus, no matter what our personal burdens are. But it's completely obvious what God intended as acceptable for sex. It has nothing to do with personal desires or the materials of the world. It doesn't matter if someone knows the truth and their cup is over flowing with knowledge if the cup itself is dirty on the inside and outside.

3:55 AM  
Blogger Daniel P. (Danny) Coleman said...

Hi Unknown,
Here's an idea... Stop trying to dictate what crosses other people should carry. Worry about your own cross to carry, and your own sin.

8:12 AM  
Blogger Kixieb said...

It is sad to see comments on here that are so negative. God has said "he who is without sin cast the first stone". Those who call themselves christians and say such ugly things. We are all sinners we all have flaws but God Loves All of us. The only person we will ever need to answer to is God. He gave us live to do with as we wish.we are no one to preach hate. We listen to hate and call it worship. Worship is getting closer to the lord and living our lives as best we can accepting all people as they are just like God does.We need to show love to all because evil and hate are so easy to express. You all have the right to feel how you want because Jesus allows. Please show love and accept all because we are all Gods creatures.

1:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I find it very sad that one minister feels they must correct/attack another minister "online" That isn't Biblical either...Why don't you just leave the whole thing up to God...We will ALL learn the truth when we take our last breath and meet the Lord face to face...

2:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Love the sinner hate the sin. I suggest you look very closely at Romans chapter 1 ,also 1 Corinthians 6:9-12 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of GOD ? Be not deceived : neither fornicators,nor idolators ,nor adulterers ,nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,10 Nor thieves, nor covetous ,nor drunkards, nor revilers nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of GOD.11 And such were some of you :but ye are washed ,but ye are sanctified but ye are justified in the name of the LORD JESUS ,and by the SPIRIT of our GOD.12 All things are lawful unto ME,but all things are not expedient :all things are lawful unto ME,but I will not be brought under the power of any./ Danny Coleman you are trying to compromise GOD's word using cultural relatism ,which is absurd I tell you ,there is a demonic spirit working in your life not the HOLY SPIRIT.





1:48 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Simply put this man struggles with the sin of homosexuality from within himself. He opened the door at the moment his curiosity was sparked then fed it with research to justify his desires. His struggle isn’t new, we all do the same in many matters of sin daily. Difference is when this raises its ugly hear Christians are to reject it and turn to Christ, having the full armor of God. We must understand that all sin being homosexuality, theft, murder whatever has it roots in only one thing, rebellion. Once we see that rebellion is the struggle that we must seek to put done in our lives, we will find peace.

5:34 AM  
Blogger Daniel P. (Danny) Coleman said...

So... You're correcting me for correcting someone else? Why don't you just leave the whole thing up to God? ;^)

As far as "one minister" correcting or criticizing "another minister", you may want to read the New Testament accounts of:
* Paul correcting/criticizing Peter (Galatians 2, Acts 11)
* The author of Jude correcting/criticizing other church leaders (Jude 1)
* The author of 3 John criticizing another church leader, Diotrephes.
* Paul openingly criticizing various other church leaders who's teachings did not agree with his own (for example, 2 Tim 2:14-19).
* Paul praising the Bereans for testing his teachings (Acts 17), and commanding the Thessalonians to "test all things" (1 Thess 5), and mandating that ministers caught teaching falsehoods (as Hibbs certainly does) be publically rebuked (1 Tim 5:20, Titus 1:13).
* Pretty much the entire Gospel of Matthew, and especially chapter 13, depicts Jesus as excoriating the church leaders (Scribes and Pharisees) of his day.

Typical of the negative comments I've received over the years for my open letter to Jack Hibbs, I see a glaring lack of Biblical literacy from the commentor. I would suggest that Biblical illiteracy is what enables people like Hibbs to stay in business.

8:58 AM  
Blogger Daniel P. (Danny) Coleman said...


Anonymous said, "Love the sinner hate the sin."

Interestingly, Jesus never said or taught this. He simply taught, "Love the sinner" or, better yet, "Love the sinner, and worry about your own sin" (something about trying to remove the speck from someone else's eye when you have a log in your own eye).

The phrase actually comes from
Mahatma Gandhi(in his 1929 autobiography). Here's what he wrote: “Hate the sin and not the sinner is a precept which, though easy enough to understand, is rarely practiced, and that is why the poison of hatred spreads in the world.”

9:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Daniel,

Thank you for this important, well stated, educated perspective on a self-serving fear mongering sermon. How can any Christian have this limited perspective on fellow human beings. Again, thank you.

6:08 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was looking for info about Mr. Hibbs theological training and came across your blog post. I wish I could say I’m surprised he has no formal theological training, but I’m not. I agree completely with the issues you’ve outlined. I would never have thought that 80% of the white evangelical church would become a tool of divisive political grievance instead of love but with Pastors like Hibbs, here we are. As a wise woman said in Nov 2016, “God is just shaking everything loose, that isn't anchored to Jesus.” And after watching Jack with Tony Perkins straight up lie to his congregation about what Critical Race Theory is I sadly think Jack is one of the ones being shaken loose.

12:18 AM  

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